当今中国应该给世界看些什么——专访中国美协驻会副主席、秘书长徐里

文本刊记者 丁薇 Ding Wei 译曹宇光Cao Yuguang

来自波斯赖伊的瓷器（布面综合）纳赛尔·帕兰吉Ceramics from Rayy in Persia (Oil and Gold Relief on Canvas) by Nasser Palangi

记者：近些年中国美协在对外交流方面做了很多，比如即将开幕的北京国际美术双年展已是第七届，还有“互绘·相知”中国当代美术作品展、“艺术与和平”中国美术世界行等活动都很成功。走了这么多地方，给您印象最深的交流活动是什么，有什么体会？

徐里：今年5月，“艺术与和平——中国当代美术作品展”走进意大利，引起了很大反响，中国与意大利代表东西方文明的两座高峰在罗马进行了艺术上的对话，中华优秀的传统文化、核心价值观得到了进一步彰显，提振了我们的文化自信。面对当今世界的不安宁，欧洲恐怖主义的活动猖獗，展览作品中期盼和平的主题受到了意大利观众的欢迎，《家园》《芦望之一》《筷子树》等作品呼吁人们保护生态环境，维护和建设人类赖以生存的共同家园。向往人类和平、关爱地球家园引起了西方人强烈的共鸣，由此可见习近平总书记提出的“命运共同体”论断所具有的普世价值。

要提升国家的文化软实力首先取决于你给世界展示了什么，作为艺术创作者要有文化自信，用具有中国文化、中国元素、中国精神的作品影响世界，让西方接受中国的审美艺术，感受独具东方意韵的中国文化。

今年北京国际美术双年展共收到120个国家4000多名艺术家的应征作品一万余件，双年展从首届举办到今天已有15年，参与国家的数量从首届的45个增加到102个，今年是首次破百。可以看到“丝路与世界文明”的主题得到了全世界艺术家的响应。中国作为世界第二大经济体已经为世界贡献了一个不一样的中国，尤其习近平总书记的大国外交策略使得中国的国际地位和影响力逐年提高。在中国取得巨大经济成果的今天，提升中国的文化软实力是我们必须要完成的课题。

记者：美术作为展示国家形象的重要载体，为中国塑像，举足轻重。您认为什么样的作品最能代表中国声音，展示国家形象？

徐里：今年7月，习近平主席对德国进行国事访问并出席在德国汉堡举行的二十国集团领导人第十二次峰会。同期，中国美协承办了在德国柏林举办的中国美术作品展，题为“感知中国·最美中国人”，取得了很好的效果。我们选择了中国艺术家和中国人民心中最美的形象，这其中有《雷锋》《高德荣画像》《焦裕禄》等时代楷模，也有《风雨兼程的乡村邮递员》这样的普通中国百姓，76幅人物画连在一起构成了中国最美的群像长卷，中国人民的勤劳、善良、智慧以一种直观、生动的方式呈现在了国际友人面前。德国观众在这些作品前驻足，通过这些艺术作品触摸当今中国的时代脉搏，了解当今中国的时代风貌，这种方式对中国文化和价值理念的宣传与传播是潜移默化的。

记者：近年来中国美协组织策划的一系列主题性、主旋律、重大历史题材的创作活动，比如中华文明历史题材美术创作工程对五千年文明史的梳理与存像，纪念建党95周年作品展对中国共产党宏伟业绩的讴歌，纪念红军长征胜利80周年的12幅巨作对长征精神的再解读等，这些对美术界产生了哪些重要的创作方向上的影响？

徐里：改革开放以来，因为国门打开，美术家受西方影响，存在一些金钱化、市场化、自由主义的倾向以及“去思想化”“去历史化”“去主流化”等思潮，为此，通过一些重大历史题材的创作，弘扬英雄精神，描绘时代楷模，使这些不良的局面得以扭转，美术创作回到正道。艺术的精神力量是灵魂，而宏大叙事的表现才是正道。美术家应当从深邃的历史当中，从生动的现实生活当中表现中国的传统文化，创作具有中国价值观的优秀作品，在艺术理解和艺术表现方面，要对过去的历史主题绘画进行超越和发展。细数起来就会发现，党的十八大以来美术界在主旋律、主题性、重大历史题材创作方面硕果累累，而且参与的人数也越来越多，这些作品很大程度上解决了美术界存在的创新发展问题、有高原无高峰问题，解决了创作中如何表现当今时代的问题，也很好回应了习近平总书记对文艺界的系列重要讲话精神。通过这些创作活动，美术界紧紧团结在为国家中心工作服务的大局中，匡正了美术界的创作导向。

记者：重大革命历史题材可以说是一个常画常新的主题，当代美术家对于重大的历史事件、历史人物、历史节点的表现，与过往同类型作品比较有哪些发展与开掘？能否谈谈其历史意义、艺术价值？

徐里：比如中国美协去年组织的纪念红军长征胜利八十周年作品展，虽然长征作品创作是个老话题，但是在新时期如何更好地理解长征精神，表现长征精神，是我们这一代美术家与上一代的不同之处，我们既要把长征精神表现好，同时又要在艺术性上体现我们当代美术家的水准，要将今天的美术语境与主题性绘画创作结合在一起。长征主题展一共展出12幅巨作，以《飞渡泸定桥》为例，画作中的人物虽然形象不是特别具体，但作品中的浪漫主义色彩尤具感染力，红军这种不怕死、勇往直前的状态，表现十分到位。过去美术家表现过草地“红光亮”的基调颇多，但《草地铁流》中红军战士相互搀扶向着前方一缕曙光走向草地深处，非常压抑、低沉。只有真实地表现沼泽地里的随时牺牲，才能凸显夺取胜利的来之不易，所以长征题材也可以是悲情深沉的，这就是当代美术家所理解的长征精神，这种具有悲剧色彩的画面呈现令长征精神更加博大，闪耀光芒。

在西方国家，历史性的主题绘画比比皆是，欧洲一些重要的美术馆、博物馆，像卢浮宫、大英、大都会等等都陈列着本国的历史巨作，国内虽唐宋时期便有记录市井阶层生活和皇帝出行、大典的绘画，却鲜成规模。所以我们现在有义务也有责任把主题性绘画创作做好，为中国艺术史注入金戈铁马的艺术精神。

另一个时空（布面丙烯）纳比勒·沙曼Another Time (Acrylic on Canvas) by Nabeel Samman

As a great power with time-honored history, china's culture has been playing an extremely important role in its external exchanges. In the current period of great achievement in economy, how Chinese arts conduct dialogues with the world in a more extensive scope,comprehensive domain and lofted level and establishes the contemporary national image of China in the international arena is a topic worthy of discussion. In this regard, our reporter had a special interview with XU Li,executive vice president and secretary general of China Artists Association (CAA).

Reporter: In recent years, CAA has sponsored many events in external exchange such as the upcoming 7th BIAB, “Exchange Painting/Mutual Learning” Chinese Contemporary Artworks Exhibition, “Art and Peace” World Journey of Chinese Fine Arts, all of which have turned out to be a success. Among so many events, which has impressed you most and what has inspired you most ?

驯鹰术（布面油画）阿列克谢·萨图诺夫Falconry (Oil on Canvas) by Aleksei Shatunov

XU Li: This May, “Art and Peace—Chinese Contemporary Fine Arts Exhibition” was held in Italy and aroused a significant feedback.China and Italy, the two HEIGHST of Oriental and Occidental civilizations, had a dialogue of arts in Rome and the excellent traditional culture as well as the core values of China were further highlighted, which has encouraged our self-confidence in culture.In face of the unsecure world and rampant terrorist attacks in Europe, the theme of expectation for peace was commonly welcome among the Italian audiences. Such works as Homeland,Sight over the Reed Tip and Chopstick Tree called on people to preserve ecological environment, safeguard and construct the common homeland for human survival. Such concerns about human peace and global preservation had aroused a strong sympathy among Westerners and thus we could obviously find the universal value of “Community with shared future for mankind”put forward by Chinese President Xi Jinping.

First of all, the enhanced soft power of national culture depends on what to be shown to the world. As artistic creators, we must be self-confident in our own culture and bring the world under the influence of Chinese culture, elements and spirits. In recognition of Chinese aesthetics, the West can feel about Chinese culture of unique Oriental charm.

Reporter: As an important carrier of China’s national image, fine arts function as a decisive factor. What kind of artworks do you believe can represent the voice and image of China?

XU Li: This July, President XI Jinping paid a state visit to Germany and attended the 12th Summit of Group 20 at Hamburg. During the same period, CAA undertook a Chinese art exhibition titled “ Feel about China/Most Beautiful Chinese” in Berlin, which was wellreceived. We selected 76 figures as the most beautiful Chinese in the mind of Chinese artists and people, such as times models LEI Feng, GAO Derong and JIAO Yulu as well as ordinary workers such as countryside postman despite wind and rain. In this long scroll about the most beautiful people in China, the diligence, good-will and wisdom of Chinese people were presented to forelgn friends in a vivid and lively way. Standing in appreciation of those works,German audiences were able to touch the current pulse and know about the current expression of China. Such a kind of publicity and dissemination of Chinese culture and values is easy to accept.

Reporter: In recent years CAA has organized a series of artistic creations concerning‘socialist central theme’and significant historical themes such as arraying five thousand years of civilization history through the project of “Fine Arts Creation of Historical Themes of Chinese Civilization”, singing ode to CPC through the Commemorative Exhibition in the anniversary of CPC Establishment and giving reinterpretation of Long March Spirit through the 12 giant works in honor of the 80th anniversary of Victory of the Red Army’s Long March. What influence have those events exerted on the creation direction of Chinese fine arts?

Xu Li: Since the reform and opening up, our artists have been severely impacted by Western culture and some wrong preferences for money, market and liberalism as well as fashions to erase thinking, history and mainstream have taken shape. In this case, by organizing creations of significant historical themes to praise the heroine spirit and role models, CAA endeavors to put an end to those dangerous tendencies and bring artistic creation back to the normal values. The spiritual power of arts lies in the soul while the expression in large-scale narration is the correct path. Artists are supposed to reflect the traditional Chinese culture both from the profound history and from vivid life in the reality and create excellent artworks of Chinese values. In the respect of artistic comprehension and manifestation, a surpassing development must be made on the basis of those paintings of historical themes in the past. In retrospect, we can find fruitful achievements and increasing artists in artistic creation concerning the socialist central theme and significant historical themes ever since the 18thNational Congress of CPC. In this way, the problems of lack of innovative development, genuine masterpieces and current reflection were solved in a great degree and echoed the President XI Jinping’s series of speeches about literary and art circles. Thanks to those creational events, Chinese fine arts circle has been united to serve for national interest and the direction of creation has been made right.

Reporter: Significant revolutionary and historical theme is an eternal theme for artists. As for current artists’ reflection of those significant historical incidents, figures and points, what development, innovation has been realized compared with those previously? What is their historical significance and value in arts?

XU Li: I would like to take the exhibition in honor of the 80thanniversary of the Red Army’s Long March as example. Though Long March is an old topic in fine arts creation, the current comprehension and manifestation of the Long March Spirit is a different issue for our generation. We are supposed to not only provide a perfect reflection of the Long March Spirit, but also demonstrate the contemporary artistic standard so as to achieve a combination of the current fine arts context and theme painting creation. Among the 12 giant works, I would like to take two examples. Though the figures seemed to be less specific, the romantic colors in the painting Taking of Luding Bridge perfectly displayed the bravery and perseverance of the Red Army. The grass in some old paintings used to appear bright in red colors while in the painting Irony Stream in the Grass, soldiers supported each other by the arm in walking towards deep grass in the twilight, which showed a depressive and overcast tone. Only by depicting the real danger hidden in the marsh can the author stress on the priceless victory that sacrifice lead to. In this sense,the Long March Spirit in contemporary understanding is conveyed in such a miserable atmosphere and such tragic moments bring audiences to appreciate the grandeur and brilliance of the Long March Spirit.

In Western countries, the historical theme paintings are almost everywhere, and national masterpieces of its motherland history can be found in some critical art galleries and museums in Europe and America such as Louvre, British Museum and Metropolitan Museum of Art. In Tang and Song Dynasties, some paintings of recording civil life, imperial excursion and ceremonies occurred from time to time. Therefore, it is our responsibility and obligation to excel in theme paintings and imbue the artistic spirit of shining spears and armed horses into China’s art history.

庄子—逍遥游（雕塑）陈云岗Zhuangzi (Sculpture) by CHEN Yungang