Interview with Hong Xiansong, A Representative Inheritor of the Sichuan Province Intangible Cultural Heritage Project “Sichuan Opera”

Deng Sihang

Deng Sihang is a Ph.D. student in art theory at Southeast University. He is currently a lecturer at the School of Music of Chengdu Vocational University of the Arts and the director of the Research and Creation Center.

Cai Yibin

Cai Yibin is a Ph.D. candidate in music education at Saint Paul University. He is currently a lecturer at the School of Music of Chengdu Vocational University of the Arts.

This book is based on the current living protection of Chinese cultural heritage and the creative transformation and innovative development of excellent traditional culture， combined with the current cultural policy， and conducts oral history research on the musician culture in Sichuan opera culture with Bashu characteristics. The book is based on oral history interviews with Sichuan opera musicians， and the interviewees are widely distributed in age and have different professional experiences， which is very representative.

Deng Sihang: Please share your experience learning and practicing in the field of Sichuan Opera. When did you first become involved with Sichuan Opera? Why did you decide to learn this craft at that time? Who were your main teachers? What kind of achievements and reputation did he have in the industry? What are the traditions and particularities involved in becoming an apprentice?

Hong Xiansong: It started before I was even born - I began learning Sichuan Opera before my birth. How can that be? Haha， I’ll explain it slowly.

It’s a family craft because both of my parents were involved in the local Sichuan Opera. My father， Hong Yuncheng， was a qin and drum musician in Changning County’s Sichuan Opera troupe， and my mother， Wan Yongzhang， was a well-known martial female role performer locally. Thus， even before I was born， Sichuan Opera music was my prenatal education. You could say I was literally ‘fed’ by opera in the womb， destined for Sichuan Opera. Right after finishing elementary school， I went to study art at Nanxi County’s Sichuan Opera Troupe in Yibin City. Why didn’t I continue to learn from my parents? There’s a saying in our field: Parents can’t effectively teach their children， and doctors can’t treat their illnesses because parents lack the heart to be strict enough， which makes it hard to cultivate real talent. At that time， Nanxi County’s Sichuan Opera troupe was very strong， so after discussing it， my parents sent me there to learn in hopes that I would acquire genuine skills.

Initially， I learned opera performance， not music， studied the warrior role under Teacher Li Junliang， and built a decent foundation. I used to be very good at martial arts， able to do more than thirty flips in place， both backward and forward， and performed in many plays， mostly modern dramas， providing me with valuable stage experience. In traditional plays， my role was often the “child role，” suitable because of my excellent vocal quality at the time. I thought I would be involved in Sichuan Opera acting my whole life， but then my voice began to change during puberty， around the age of fourteen or fifteen， making it difficult to continue singing. During a period when my voice was still changing， some teachers suggested I consider other options since singing was temporarily unsuitable. How about thinking about what else you might want to learn or do? Although many thought I might change careers or even leave Sichuan Opera entirely， I was born for Sichuan Opera! I couldn’t just give up Sichuan Opera because my voice didn’t “turn out” right! I deeply love Sichuan Opera， and I would definitely never change professions!

Conveniently， at that time， some younger students， my “brothers，” began learning Sichuan Opera instruments， and I thought， why not give it a try? There were many instruments to choose from， and when asked which to learn， I chose to be a drummer. My first drumming teacher， Feng Yuwen， was a well-known drummer in the southern Sichuan area. He had already started teaching students by then， and I visited during my free time and found it fascinating. I thought， since I couldn’t sing， why not learn to play the drums? With naive enthusiasm， I began learning the art of Sichuan Opera drumming from Teacher Feng. According to typical teaching norms and foundational procedures， a “meteoric rise” to becoming a master drummer is quite rare; generally， one starts as a basic apprentice and progresses step by step. However， because I learned quickly， had great interest， and was willing to endure hardship， I rapidly progressed to advanced levels. Since then， I transitioned from being an opera performer to a Sichuan Opera drummer， primarily under Teacher Feng， with assistance from Teacher Xie Lijun. From that point on， I began working as a Sichuan Opera percussionist. Later in 1977， my teacher’s wife， Zhou Yuying， suggested that since I was no longer singing much， the deputy director， Zhong Guanghua， should recommend me to study at the Zigong Opera House. When I sought education at Zigong City’s Sichuan Opera House， I worked very hard. They appreciated my martial arts skills， and I occasionally helped them with performing roles， eventually becoming the third generation heir of the Sichuan Opera “Ziyang River” school. Of course， my main study was still drumming.

Later， I recognized Hong Sen as my elder brother， a very important figure in my life， because his introduction led me to meet the most significant benefactor and teacher of my life， Teacher Liu Hanzhang. Before Teacher Liu had been the first director of the Zigong Sichuan Opera House since the founding of the People’s Republic of China and was a renowned drummer， he knew many Sichuan Opera tunes， so our school hired him to teach in Chengdu for many years. After retiring， Teacher Liu returned to Zigong， and that’s how I got to know him. Teacher Liu liked me a lot because， being over eighty and childless， my mother allowed me to become his adopted son. I formally bowed to him and was accepted into his teaching. Though he did not require me to write a “commitment to learning，” he did give me some keepsakes， acknowledging my status. Now， many don’t believe I was accepted by Teacher Liu， but I have plenty of evidence， so I won’t explain it further. I am honored to have met many great teachers who passed on their lifelong knowledge， benefiting me to this day.

Later， I resolved more firmly to dedicate my life to the art of Sichuan Opera， setting a new goal: to strive to enter Sichuan Province’s Sichuan Opera School for further study. At that time， many local teachers were reluctant to let me go， and the secretaries and directors of our local Sichuan Opera troupes encouraged me to try the entrance exam. If I passed， I would go; If not， I would return， as the Zigong Sichuan Opera Troupe had offered me a permanent position， securing my future. I remember that during the exam， over five thousand people from Chongqing， Zigong， Neijiang， Luzhou， Yibin， Leshan， and other places participated. I was the last to go， but there were only about eighty spots available and only ten for Sichuan Opera percussionists， making it extremely competitive. At the time， I was staying with my uncle Liu Hanzhang near Neijiang， so he suggested I take the exam in the Meijiashan area of Neijiang. During the exam， I received significant support and help from the renowned Sichuan Opera drummer Xiang Yongnian and several other Neijiang troupe teachers.

I was very nervous during the exam， wondering， “What would I do if I didn’t pass?” Would I just give up? Return to my hometown? With these thoughts， I decided to give it my all. At the time， I boldly asked the overseeing teacher if I could try out as a performer. After receiving an affirmative response， I set aside my instruments， stood up， and began to sing and perform acrobatics -- showing my best side， leaving no regrets. Later， the judges and experts believed both my singing and drumming were quite good， but ultimately， they felt I was better suited for drumming. They discussed this for a long time.

After the exam， I didn’t know the results and went straight home. Waiting for the results was agonizing; if I didn’t pass， I might have to change careers and give up on Sichuan Opera. By August 15 of that year， still without any news， I resolved that if I passed， I would dedicate my life to being a drummer. Fortunately， I passed in 1978， the only percussionist accepted from the entire southern Sichuan region -- a challenging feat. After graduating in 1981， I stayed at the school， never abandoning my profession as a Sichuan Opera drummer， and also took on the responsibility of training new percussion talent.

Deng Sihang: How do you assess the overall situation of Sichuan Opera musicians’ participation in performances today? Are they mostly commercial performances， charitable shows， or government-organized cultural events?

Hong Xiansong: I think the current situation has its ups and downs. On the positive side， many traditional works are still being performed， and some new works are also quite good. The Sichuan Arts Vocational College and various local Sichuan Opera troupes continue to maintain their performance activities， and we spend a lot of time each year performing and exchanging ideas. However， on the downside， commercial performances are infrequent now， and few people buy tickets on their initiative. Most performances are either sporadic or organized by the government. I feel that although there is a new generation of audience， their numbers are not sufficient， so I believe the situation for Sichuan Opera performances needs continuous improvement. It’s a long and heavy responsibility.

I also think learning Sichuan Opera is challenging and requires collaboration from many sides. It’s very hard to find good drummers now， and the requirements are high. For instance， our Sichuan Opera mainly focuses on high-pitched singing with other voice types as secondary. This represents eighty percent of traditional plays. The biggest issue with high-pitched singing is its variability and lack of fixity， making accompanying music challenging， yet high-pitched singing is the soul of Sichuan Opera! Traditional Sichuan Opera tunes are even harder to sing and accompany! And within the same tune， there are variations for male and female voices. So， training good Sichuan Opera performers and drummers is very difficult.

I believe the biggest crisis for Sichuan Opera right now is the lack of young successors. The old ones are getting older， and the new ones aren’t keeping up， naturally leading to less attention to our Sichuan Opera music and musicians， and thus， performances are becoming increasingly rare. This leads to a vicious cycle.